Tom is a DCAU veteran. Jimmy is going through the various Justice League cartoons for the first time. How is that working out?
Well, they got to the Justice League Unlimited episodes “Clash,” “Hunter’s Moon,” and “Question Authority.” See below to find out what happens when they see, among other things, a Captain Marvel.
Superman has some issues with Lex Luthor…and new League member Captain Marvel!
tomk: Oh, yes. Let us anger Jenny.
tomk: Had enough of that?
OK, one more.
tomk: How about a comment on the episode itself then?
jimmy: Maybe people should believe Superman over Lex Luthor?
tomk: But he got a presidential pardon! He must be reformed!
jimmy: Yeah, all those Presidential pardons imply reform.
tomk: Might depend on which president issued it.
jimmy: Very true.
Though technically Superman was wrong about the device, but ultimately not wrong about Luthor.
tomk: And really, Batman was right about what really happened.
jimmy: A bit late now, Bats.
tomk: He was busy elsewhere.
jimmy: Busy asking for help.
tomk: It was serious.
jimmy: But a piece of cake for Captain Marvel who took care of things before the camera could even pan over to the battle.
tomk: Everything is a piece of cake for the World’s Mightiest Mortal!
jimmy: And a better boy scout than Superman.
tomk: When Batman says it, it must be true.
jimmy: Too bad he didn’t figure out the setup a bit earlier.
tomk: He was probably busy with an Arkham outbreak.
jimmy: Probably. Good thing no one had moved into Lexville yet.
tomk: Good thing no one carded Captain Marvel, too…
jimmy: Being able to turn into a grown up at will helps. Especially when you need to buy beer.
tomk: This Captain Marvel wouldn’t do that.
jimmy: Right. Ultimate Boy Scout.
tomk: Though fun fact: Jerry O’Connell voiced Captain Marvel and he played Superman on a number of recent direct to home video animated DC movies.
jimmy: I never noticed that’s who it was. And I generally miss the list of voices now since I don’t usually watch the credits.
tomk: See? You learned something.
jimmy: I’m surprised I didn’t recognize him.
tomk: He was probably hanging out at your house before the pandemic and everything.
jimmy: Yeah, but we try not to talk shop or about my love of Rebecca Romijn.
tomk: You mean the woman who married O’Connell and played Lois Lane in those same animated movies?
jimmy: I didn’t know the latter, but yes. We don’t talk about that.
tomk: Maybe if you asked him about his wife once in a while…
jimmy: What part of we don’t talk about her don’t you understand, Tom?
More than you will ever know because she hangs out with me to talk about Babylon 5.
jimmy: I’ll be right over.
tomk: Not during a pandemic you won’t be. Besides, Jerry’s usually here too.
jimmy: Sigh. Maybe we should get back to talking about Luthor being a jerk?
tomk: Even if he named a hospital after his sister or daughter depending on what continuity you’re reading?
jimmy: All part of the long con.
tomk: Marvel’s school was named “CC Binder” elementary school or something. That’s CC for classic Captain Marvel artist CC Beck and Binder for writer Otto Binder, who created a number of Captain Marvel characters and later Supergirl.
jimmy: I don’t know either of those names.
tomk: You do now because I just told you.
jimmy: You did and now I do.
tomk: And for that, you get a gift…of knowledge.
jimmy: Less calories that way.
tomk: The Moose got three chocolate cakes.
jimmy: His favorite.
tomk: He doesn’t share?
jimmy: Not usually.
tomk: I thought he was a better friend than that.
jimmy: He is, but he needs a lot to eat.
I would say something like, “Hey! Share some of that chocolate, Moose!”
jimmy: Haha, you would.
tomk: And then Captain Marvel would have a good laugh because he has the sense of humor of a ten year old.
jimmy: A ten year old that has no problem calling out the Justice League for no longer acting like heroes.
tomk: Was he right?
jimmy: They seem like heroes to me.
tomk: See, when this show was new, I had an online hangout group that may have included Watson, but one guy there was a HUGE Captain Marvel fan and he had a tendency to go a bit…long-winded. And he wrote this LONG post explaining in minute detail why Marvel was right in every way, and how the League needed to be better people and Marvel should come back for another episode to check on their progress and oh boy…
jimmy: What could Superman have done differently? I suppose, get the Atom in beforehand to check it out, but his distrust of Luther is warranted. Plus the lead and kryptonite made it look suspicious. And the timer and so called “surprise”.
tomk: And he wasn’t entirely wrong. Luthor was up to something. But really, the only Leaguer being a bit of a jerk was Superman. Batman was inclined to like Marvel and the others never spoke.
jimmy: I can see how Superman’s behavior can be looked at that way, but he was under the gun. He didn’t think he had time to explain everything, plus he easily has the most history with Luthor. Now, maybe he didn’t have to destroy a city block, but Marvel was just as much to blame there.
tomk: The problem is Luthor’s “up to something” was different from his usual “set up a trap to kill Superman” and was instead “set up Superman and Marvel to make the League look bad”.
jimmy: Luthor is stepping up his game.
tomk: He’s working with Waller now. She’s…crafty.
tomk: Waller cut her teeth working for the government by fighting for all our rights to party.
jimmy: You are on a roll today.
tomk: No one sabotaged me.
jimmy: Ok, ok. Let’s not get carried away.
tomk: Look, the next episode might be a bit more intergalactic planetary, planetary intergalactic.
jimmy: That…was a good one too.
tomk: I have my moments.
Did you have anything else to add? Like more Captain Marvel gifs?
tomk: Well, I will add one more thing: the villains Superman and Batman are smacking around in the middle of the episode are a minor DC bad guy group called the Cadre.
But that’s enough of those guys. You got some Captain Marvel, and he even used his lightning attack.
jimmy: I did find it funny that Captain Marvel has to physically get hit by lightening to change back into Billy Batson (and vice versa). I always thought of it as more symbolic.
tomk: Well, tossing lightning is more of a recent trick. Heck, using the lightning in combat probably came from Kingdom Come.
jimmy: I can see conjuring lightning, but still find it amusing that if it hits him he changes, otherwise it can be used as a weapon…but only if you are standing directly between Marvel and the sky. I sure hope no planes are flying by on that exact trajectory.
tomk: Well, that got really dark.
jimmy: I’m just saying the Big Red Cheese better be careful with that lightning attack.
tomk: Oh, he seems responsible. I’m sure he’d correct any mistake he made along those lines.
jimmy: He definitely has a thing or two to learn from JLU Shazam…uhh…Captain Marvel.
tomk: Captain Marvel is a minor reoccurring character on Young Justice. In the first two seasons, they call him Captain Marvel. When they finally made season three years later, he was billed as “Shazam”.
jimmy: And now I got “lightning with my hands” stuck in my head.
tomk: Is that the worst song I have inadvertently gotten stuck in your head?
jimmy: No. I’ll take it.
tomk: Did you have anything else to add about the man from Fawcett City?
jimmy: Not really. Only how Lois Lane has become an essential nobody since STAS.
tomk: She’s still doing better than Jimmy “Impossible” Olson and Perry “No Cool Nickname” White.
jimmy: Very true.
tomk: Well, we’ve seen someone have issues with the Man of Steel. Would you like to see who might have problems with another founding member?
jimmy: Is it Flash? That’s a long list.
tomk: No, but it might also be someone with a long list.
jimmy: Then sure. Let’s find out.
“lightning with my hands”
Hawkgirl, Vixen, and Vigilante respond to a distress call in space, but it’s a trap!
My other opening was: “aka The One Where I Learned Way Too Much About Green Lantern’s Underwear.”
tomk: Hal goes commando.
jimmy: Again, TMI.
tomk: To be fair, the ladies only mentioned his socks.
jimmy: So, his underwear drawer has socks? He just rocks the one sock Chili Peppers style?
tomk: It could be a very big drawer.
You know, with room for his many pairs of socks.
jimmy: All neatly folded.
tomk: As one should. I guess Hawkgirl and Vixen just toss random socks into a drawer and forget about them.
jimmy: You roll matching socks together. Anything else is just insanity.
tomk: Like that one guy in the mech suit who couldn’t think anymore?
jimmy: Yeah. He’s a willy nilly socker for sure.
tomk: He looked naked inside that suit. He may not wear socks anymore.
jimmy: Also a good point.
tomk: Also, take a cowboy with you to space.
jimmy: That seemed like the oddest choice. Vixen wasn’t much better.
tomk: Until you consider they were both voiced by actors who appeared on Firefly/Serenity.
jimmy: That shouldn’t matter but makes just as much sense as anything else.
tomk: Gina Torres was back as Vixen and Nathan Fillion was Vigilante.
jimmy: Not that they overly needed any space dukes. The majority of the time they were running around on the planet.
tomk: Space dukes…
jimmy: Space dukes.
tomk: Hawkgirl is better off with John’s rebound and the cowboy. Actual space heroes are weird.
jimmy: Based on that evidence…yes.
tomk: Well, then, get that cowboy and the fashion model before you go into space.
jimmy: I will!
tomk: Unless you are the cowboy or somehow the fashion model…
jimmy: Sadly neither.
tomk: Well, I am sure you can find some next time there’s a space mission for the JLC.
jimmy: We do have both…or so I’m told.
jimmy: Those Thanagarians sure know how to hold a grudge.
tomk: Well, they don’t have a planet anymore. They need something to do.
jimmy: Maybe if they had worked with the Justice League and not tried to take over Earth…
tomk: Or tried to destroy the Earth to save the Thanagar.
jimmy: That too.
tomk: But at least you learned where some other heroes were like you’ve been griping about since JLU started.
jimmy: On the can?
tomk: Well, Vigilante was in a Thanagarian prison camp and Vixen was fighting them.
jimmy: I’m sure that was most heroes.
tomk: Well, you used to ask all the time.
jimmy: I should have asked something more useful. Like for a million dollars.
tomk: American or Canadian?
jimmy: American obviously.
tomk: Can’t help you there.
jimmy: Fine. Canadian.
tomk: OK. I can probably get the 790,000 American dollars from the bank for that. I’ll just use Ryan’s Facebook corporate account.
tomk: You can use it to fight alien bird people.
jimmy: They started it!
tomk: They tend to hold grudges. What did you do to them, Jimmy? Did you deny them the chance to save their home world, a mission that could only be accomplished by destroying your tool shed?
jimmy: But it’s a nice tool shed.
tomk: I didn’t say you were wrong.
jimmy: Like I said, maybe if they had asked the JL for help instead of taking over the Earth and planning to destroy it, maybe together they could have figured something out.
tomk: They weren’t the type to ask nicely.
jimmy: And look where it got them.
tomk: Stuck on a mystery planet setting up useless traps?
jimmy: Exactly. With no planet of their own and their leader gone.
tomk: They truly suck now.
jimmy: More than the team Homer was talking on the phone about.
tomk: Well, they aren’t Sewer King. He truly was the suckiest suck who ever sucked.
At least these guys have a space ship. Space ships are cool.
jimmy: Yup. That’s why cowboys fly’em.
tomk: Apparently, Vigilante can fly spaceships and drive a motorcycle. Ironically, he probably has trouble with horses.
jimmy: That would be funny.
tomk: Also funny…we don’t know who John was happy to see return safe and sound at the end of the episode.
jimmy: It is ambiguous, but seemed to lean towards Vixen (smart man), though neither had any time for him.
tomk: He was really there to see Vigilante.
tomk: Well,it’s good to know Hawkgirl is popular everywhere.
tomk: Regardless, we at least found out she doesn’t have to worry about her ex coming back. He dead.
jimmy: John’s dead?!!?
tomk: The other one.
tomk: John still has things to do.
Regardless, we won’t see the Thanagarians again.
jimmy: Except one.
tomk: Yes. Except one.
jimmy: They’re allowed to have one.
tomk: You’re smart. You should infiltrate Cadmus, find stuff out.
jimmy: That sounds more like a Batman job.
tomk: Well, somebody’s job.
Would you like an update on that guy’s progress?
jimmy: Good question.
tomk: Are you being clever?
tomk: Well, we can always stop here.
jimmy: And not know his progress?
tomk: Well then, let’s find some answers.
The Question’s investigation into Cadmus leads to some dangerous secrets.
jimmy: Hey! Jimmy’s back! Kinda…
tomk: He makes a convenient hostage while Superman is canoodling with Lois on a rooftop somewhere.
jimmy: First time in a long time they’ve given Lois anything half relevant to do to.
tomk: Someone has to take Superman to task for presumed arrogance. It’s Lois’s turn. Clearly no one listened to Batman after Doomsday or Captain Marvel when they did it.
jimmy: I don’t remember her eyes being purple and perfectly matching her earrings.
jimmy: Or they had a lot of purple left over they needed to use up before the end of the fiscal year.
tomk: Your answer is better.
jimmy: Regardless, she did shine a spotlight on Superman and the League from perhaps the audience point of view. And you know I’m a sucker for continuity callbacks.
tomk: Like Jimmy’s signal watch?
jimmy: Sure, but more the references Lois made to prior episodes of JL/JLU/STAS.
tomk: The show has been doing that for a while rather effectively. It’s why I say the DCAU may rival the MCU for long form superhero storytelling.
jimmy: I find it has only really stepped it up in this season of JLU. Previously there was a loose continuity about some things that may get a mention or may not.
tomk: That’s probably because it was more of a planned thing from here.
jimmy: That’s what I mean. With JLU they really concentrated on it. Your point is valid, but I think the MCU was more mapped out from the start…to varying degrees with bumps in the road I’m sure.
tomk: Well, if we’re talking mapped out from day one…probably. But the fact that Dwayne McDuffie was able to tie all kinds of plot threads from years of stories and tie them together into…well, this show and a story you haven’t seen the end of yet.
jimmy: Speaking of, they sneakily turned this into at least a 2-parter without a “To Be Continued”.
tomk: Uh, yeah…a two parter…
jimmy: Three? Ongoing?
tomk: You’ll have to wait and see.
jimmy: I suppose I will. Either way, it was a departure from the usual one and done stories, even with the heightened continuity.
tomk: You did learn a lot, like what those plastic tips on shoelaces are.
jimmy: Or to just stand behind Superman while people are shooting at you.
tomk: It’s the best place to stand in such situations.
jimmy: Though otherwise, Huntress seems to have no trouble looking after herself.
tomk: Imagine if they took Batman. Superman would be hiding behind him!
jimmy: Batman would have them all taken out before they could get a shot off.
tomk: However, the Question has some other issues. Like trying to murder Lex Luthor doesn’t always work out well for some reason.
jimmy: So is the idea here that the Justice Lords storyline wasn’t an alternate reality, but the future?
tomk: The idea is Cadmus may be worried the Justice Lords will be the future.
jimmy: I get that. But the Question mentions a time loop. And that Luthor’s becoming President, killing Flash and getting killed by Superman were destined to happen.
It seems like what Cadmus is doing is resulting in self fulling prophecy as opposed to preventing the Justice Lords. Or maybe they think they are doing right, without realizing they are being manipulated by Luthor.
tomk: I think it’s the latter. Hamilton and Waller may not be saints, but they aren’t exactly villains.
jimmy: That Luthor’s a cancer-free slippery one.
tomk: He seemed pretty strong, too.
jimmy: Unusually strong, yes.
tomk: That or the Question is a kid on stilts.
jimmy: Or three ducks in a trench coat.
jimmy: Also strong: Question’s B.O.
tomk: Well, you see how good you smell after some creepy electrocutes you to find out what you know.
It’s a good thing the Question knows many things.
jimmy: He smelled before that…but I’m sure that didn’t help.
tomk: Is now a good time for an Axe Body Spray joke?
jimmy: Knock yourself out.
tomk: I think I just did.
jimmy: That’s why you are the master, and I but the humble student.
tomk: But you’re learning. Here, have a certificate of accomplishment.
jimmy: Haha, thanks! And low in calories to boot!
tomk: It comes with a muffin basket for the Moose.
jimmy: He says thanks.
tomk: He is a polite Moose…like Captain Atom.
In that Captain Atom is polite…not a Moose.
jimmy: I was gonna say.
tomk: Captain Atom is the kind of guy who will apologize when his government orders him to turn on his team.
jimmy: I get it, and he sure had the guilt trip laid on him, but I think once he turns into a super hero…that’s a discharge.
tomk: A discharge for a guy with radiation powers sounds dangerous.
jimmy: Yeah, yeah. But seriously, do you really think he’s still yours to command?
tomk: It may not matter if I do so much as he does.
jimmy: I thought the exact same thing after I typed that last message.
tomk: Good for you. Have another certificate of accomplishment with a complimentary muffin basket.
jimmy: You’ve become quite generous.
tomk: I got Watson’s credit card.
jimmy: AND ALL I’M GETTING ARE MUFFINS?!?!?
tomk: For now.
Better gifts are coming.
jimmy: Something special? Like a picnic atop a bridge?
tomk: I was thinking a rocketcar.
jimmy: Even better.
tomk: And maybe Cousin Minka’s phone number.
jimmy: Is there anything Watson’s credit card can’t do?!?
tomk: Well, I can give you the phone number. But she’ll probably bring her partner, Daily Show host Trevor Noah.
jimmy: Guess I’ll just stick with the rocket car and the sandwiches.
tomk: Oh, I am sure someone will go with you if you ask.
How about those kids that are always hanging around the lobby? They aren’t Cadmus spies or anything along those lines.
jimmy: Will they break my heart like Professor Hamilton did to Superman?
tomk: Well, Superman broke his first when he spooked Hamilton during that whole “Superman was controlled by Darkseid” period.
jimmy: People just need to let that go. Could have happened to anyone.
tomk: But most people can’t crack concrete with their pinky finger.
jimmy: It all worked out. And they got the League now. And as long as no one mentions Martha, Batman could take him down on his own.
tomk: Yeah, but knowing the Justice Lords could happen again and how Superman was once mind controlled to attack the Earth, I don’t think Cadmus agrees with you there.
jimmy: Maybe they also read Irredeemable.
tomk: Did Luthor claim he was Incorruptible?
jimmy: More like incorrigible.
tomk: Yeah, but Mark Waid didn’t write that one.
jimmy: No, but that doesn’t make Luthor less of a jerk.
tomk: Look, if you can’t trust a convicted felon, I don’t know who you can trust.
jimmy: And there’s absolutely no parallels to his run for Presidency and any recent history.
tomk: Or a presidential pardon going to someone potentially undeserving.
jimmy: That never happens.
tomk: In Marvel lore, the Hulk got a pardon once.
jimmy: Ain’t he unglamorous!
tomk: Or immortal.
Like Luthor apparently…
jimmy: Maybe he’s like Mr Burns. Pure evil and with every disease and virus all jammed in a small novelty door.
tomk: Yeah. That must be it.
tomk: And still very strong.
jimmy: I have a feeling we’ll here more about that.
tomk: Or we won’t. Maybe he just fights better than the Question.
jimmy: Perhaps. He’s no Batman. Or Huntress for that matter.
tomk: We did see Green Arrow take him down without too much trouble.
jimmy: I assume Arrow is well trained. Batman-esque. Question is more about conspiracies and research than throwing punches.
tomk: You just aren’t impressed by the Question.
jimmy: He’s fine. But fighting is not his thing.
I also find it hard to take him seriously when I know he looks like this:
tomk: Or this:
jimmy: Thanks for the nightmare!
tomk: Thank Gotham!
jimmy: I must have stopped watching before it got there.
tomk: You didn’t finish season one?
jimmy: I did. Maybe I just blocked it out. Thanks for bringing it back up!
tomk: Um…have Cousin Minka’s phone number!
So, anything else on this or shall we see how serious Captain Atom is about smacking down Superman?
tomk: You mean the guy who controls energy and radiation in all its forms, allowing him to do all kinds of things, and was instrumental in defeating Mantis of Apokalips vs a flying brick?
jimmy: Yeah, that guy.
tomk: We can look into that. It sounds potentially exciting.
jimmy: Messing with Superman is probably not good for your resume.
tomk: Unless it’s all a big misunderstanding.
jimmy: And Flash trips over the couch.
tomk: If he trips and dies, and Luthor placed the couch, that leads to the Justice Lords timeline.
jimmy: Question was right! It is inevitable!
tomk: His shoelace tips told him so.
jimmy: They’ll never lead you astray.
tomk: Ready to move on to the end of the season?
tomk: It may be the end of the Cadmus arc and the originally planned series finale before an unexpected renewal.
jimmy: You hinted at that. Ok, let’s see what happens.
NEXT TIME: Tom and Jimmy finish up the Cadmus arc with the episodes “Flashpoint,” “Panic in the Sky,” “Divided We Fall,” and “Epilogue”.