April 19, 2024

Gabbing Geek

Your online community for all things geeky.

Going Through The DCAU Part Sixty-Seven

Jimmy and Tom are back with the Batman Beyond episodes "Speak No Evil," "The Call" parts one and two, and "Betrayal".

Jimmy and Tom return for more cartoon superhero chat.  This time around they cover the Batman Beyond episodes “Speak No Evil,” the two part “The Call,” and “Betrayal”.

“Speak No Evil”

Terry meets an intelligent gorilla with a grudge!  Can the pair catch a poacher?


tomk:  Are you saying you saw a connection between those cartoon primates?

jimmy:  Well, they both went into space.  No, wait…

tomk:  Look, who’s the expert on going into space around here?

jimmy:  I guess it’s me.

tomk:  I thought it was Halbrook.

jimmy:  Or, let’s say, Moe.

tomk:  OK, we still have a smart gorilla.

jimmy:  Yes. It was a very DC episode.

tomk:  I have no idea what you are talking about.


So, do you like talking apes or not, Jimmy?

jimmy:  Who doesn’t?  Besides maybe Barry.

And my God, that show looks awful.

tomk: Legends of Tomorrow is the best DC show on the CW right now because it realized long ago it had an incredibly silly premise and just decided to embrace it.

Basically, don’t take it seriously.

jimmy: If that’s the best one…

tomk: Arrow is moody.  The Flash gets that way too.  Supergirl tries to be earnest with really thin political allegories.  Legends is just fun.

Plus, the budget isn’t very high, so that is the best CGI ape they can do.

jimmy:  Does Grodd generally speak telepathically?

tomk:  Or through other people.

At least on the TV he does.

jimmy:  Well, at least Cy-Gor or whatever his name is here has that advantage.

tomk:  Fingers?

jimmy: Right. Fingers.

tomk:  I rewatched the episode to remind myself.

jimmy:  So you could say, they let Fingers do the talking.  He he he…he…hmph.

tomk:  Proud of yourself for that one?

jimmy:  I take what I can.

tomk:  I’m starting to think the only real objection you had to the Legends clip was Grodd’s lips didn’t move.

jimmy:  Actually, that didn’t bother me.  The rest of it seemed cheap and corny. But that’s what you say they are going for. “Fun.”  Like what Fingers was not having this episode.

tomk:  Good segue!

jimmy:  Those scientists have probably had better days too.

tomk:  So much of all that is their fault.  Splicing never helps anybody.

jimmy:  At least they weren’t poachers.

tomk:  The worst kind of poachers…the kind that didn’t keep a receipt so they could find Mama Gorillas again!

jimmy:  Not to defend him…but…do you really think he would/should know where she is?

tomk:  Um…

Potential blackmail material?

jimmy:  I don’t think Kraven cares once he is done with them and gets what he wants.

tomk:  Hey, those bionic eyes don’t pay for themselves.

jimmy:  Yeah…funny that it’s one of the few episodes where Terry, rightfully, extensively uses his cloaking device…and it’s useless against everyone he’s fighting.

tomk:  Well, maybe that’s why he doesn’t use it more often.

jimmy:  Are you saying Terry is smarter than the average bear?

tomk:  Maybe even smarter than the average large ape.

jimmy:  Nah. That ape was smarter.

tomk:  He was an above average ape.

jimmy:  Luckily for Terry.

tomk:  …how many big apes do you expect him to fight in the last few episodes…?

jimmy:  12.

tomk:  Oh.  Good guess.

jimmy:  w00t!

tomk:  Did you recognize the name Malachi Thorne in the closing credits, Mr. Ape Guessing Guy?

Brother to the Not Giving Up School Guy.

jimmy:  I…did not.

tomk:  Well, he was an actor whose best known roles were multiple parts in two different franchises:  Star Trek and Batman.

jimmy:  Hmm. Surprised I don’t know the name.

tomk:  Well, on Star Trek he was a big headed alien in the first, unused pilot.  Then that footage got reused for the original series, but he also played a commodore putting Spock on trial in the same episode.  He also did a two part Next Generation story.

For Batman, he was bad guy False Face for the Adam West show and the voice of Two-Face’s Judge personality in the last episode of The New Batman Adventures.

jimmy:  So, not a surprise after all then. 🙂

tomk:  I never said he had HUGE roles in those franchises.

jimmy:  And I’m not a TOS or Batman ‘66 fan either.

tomk:  Cripes, what old stuff do you like, Jimmy?

jimmy:  Clint Eastwood?

tomk:  Solid choice.  You win a prize.

jimmy:  I hope it’s a mystery box!

It could be anything.

Even a boat.

tomk:  It’s a visit from Fingers!

jimmy:  …I don’t think he’d like it here very much.

tomk:  He can always call a cab.

jimmy:  Haha, the cabbie wasn’t phased at all by a talking ape until he got stiffed his fare.

tomk:  He didn’t notice the ape smell, I guess.

jimmy:  Or the lack of pockets.

tomk:  You get used to that.

jimmy:  You ever feel like Barbara should be more agile than she is?  I know she’s older, but she’s not Bruce.  He still kicks ass at times when he can.  But Babs seems like she’s completely forgotten she used to be Batgirl.

tomk:  I do…now.

jimmy:  Heh

tomk:  You want backflipping old ladies in your talking apes cartoon. Got it.

jimmy:  Well, maybe not.  But except for the narrative tells you she used to be a caped crusader, you’d never know.

tomk:  Bruce probably kept himself in shape far longer than she did.

jimmy:  I suppose.  Still…

tomk:  Should I go find a Legends of Tomorrow clip to explain it?

jimmy:  No, that’s ok.

tomk:  That’s good. I don’t think I have one.

jimmy:  Well, Tom, any other monkey wisdom to share with our reader?

tomk:  Not really. It’s a pretty straightforward episode.

jimmy:  And I assume letting Fingers go on his way knowing Batman’s secret identity doesn’t come back to haunt them?

tomk:  He’s a kindred spirit.

jimmy:  Batman does love bananas.

tomk:  And who’s Fingers gonna tell anyway?  He’s not like that blabber mouth Zeta.

jimmy:  And Fingers never got his own show.

tomk:  Or a second episode.

jimmy:  Which seems fair.

tomk:  But if you want a group that got its own show, there’s always Superman and the Justice League.

jimmy:  Is this a segue?

tomk:  It could be.

jimmy:  Then I can dig it.

tomk:  Let’s get a team episode then.

jimmy: Let’s!

“The Call Parts 1 & 2”

There’s a saboteur in the Justice League!  Can new member Batman find him before it’s too late?

jimmy:  I really struggled to get past Superman not being Tim Daly.
tomk:  Justice League is really going to bug you.

That said, I actually prefer George Newburn.

jimmy:  Well, this was neither.

tomk:  I believe they used the guy who played Jor-El.

jimmy:  Who’s got two thumbs and played Joe-El?  This guy!

tomk:  Also, he’s Old Superman.

But he took care of Inque inside of five seconds.  That’s her last appearance, but Superman’s first for this series.  What do you think of that?

jimmy:  Superman should take care of all of Batman’s rogues gallery in 5 seconds.

tomk:  That’s your answer to everything.  Including Watson’s dating problems.

jimmy: Even Superman can’t take care of that after 5 seconds.

tomk: Got it.  He’d need six.

jimmy: So Original Recipe Batman was only ever a part time Justice Leaguer?

tomk: That’s what this show says.

I could say more, but that would be telling.

jimmy: At least they explained what happened to the rest of the League. Oh, wait. All we know is that Aquaman is missing.

tomk:  I can tell you something else there.

Aquagirl’s voice can from actress Jodi Benson.  Do you know what her best known role is?

jimmy:  Nope.


jimmy: Heh. Nice.

tomk: Yes.  She voiced the crab.

jimmy: …there’s another Watson joke there somewhere.


jimmy: That’s not terrifying.

tomk: Is Wayne Brady voicing Micron scary?

jimmy: No.  Though I didn’t really recognize him.

tomk: Did you recognize anybody there?



tomk: OK, good call.

I don’t generally expect a minor Easter Egg from a Superman episode to pay dividends to a Batman series.

jimmy: And they really milked that in the flashback.

tomk: You mean continuity is now a problem for House Impossible?

jimmy: No, no, just pointing it out. I liked the callback.

tomk: Well, OK then.

But hey, that was some League.  One random New God, a Hawkman wannabe, some kid with a Green Lantern ring, the size-changing guy who spends most of the two parter in a coma, and Aquaman’s kid.

jimmy: I assumed Micron was descended from The Atom somehow.   And was GL a kid, or just a small bald guy?  No one said he was human.

tomk: I think he’s supposed to be a young Buddhist monk.

jimmy: Could be.

tomk: Might not matter. We won’t see most of them again.

jimmy: Most eh?

tomk: Well, we might see a couple in Justice League.

jimmy: Which was in full swing by this point in the DCAU right?

tomk: Nope!  In fact, Bruce Timm and company made this episode to see if they could pull off a team show.

jimmy: Oh really?  I thought one of the reasons that BB was cancelled was that everyone had gone on to Justice League, so I figured that had already started.

tomk: Justice League was maybe a year away at this point.

At the least, it hadn’t been announced yet.

jimmy: So they didn’t show concurrently?

tomk: Not really.

jimmy: Ah.

tomk: Static Shock did because the John Stewart Green Lantern appeared on JL and SS.

jimmy: And we don’t talk about Static Shock around these parts.

tomk: We can if you want to. It’s generally considered part of the DCAU. But I think it was made part retroactively after a season or two. That and I am not that overly familiar with it.

jimmy: Let’s get through the main stuff at least first.  🙂

I know almost nothing about it either.

tomk: That’s fine. So, what did you think of the Justice League?

jimmy: They seemed more like a team during a run prior to them making a big deal about the most popular Justice Leaguers returning.

tomk: Well who is on the Justice League 2099 anyway?

jimmy: Old Man Superman, The Atom, Wonder Woman, Hawkman, Green Lantern and Aqua(wo)man.

I’m surprised Superman ages pretty much normally.

tomk: No, Bruce ages normally. Clark looks pretty good at that age.

jimmy: But he has still aged. Grey haired, etc.  Just surprised he’d age that much.  Similar to his Kingdom Come appearance I suppose.

tomk: Space parasites can speed up the aging process.

jimmy: Lousy space parasites.

tomk: It’s why no one knows Besher isn’t Ryan’s son but his twin brother.

jimmy: Are you saying Ryan has a lot of space parasites?

tomk: He used to. Lousy Watson…

jimmy: So, we’re getting a bit silly too early.  I enjoyed these episodes.  I kinda guessed that Superman was the traitor, but didn’t guess why.

tomk: Did you guess Superman was the guy following Terry in a baseball cap?

jimmy: No, I did not.

tomk: So, a baseball cap is a better disguise than a pair of glasses?

jimmy: Even better if you have both.

tomk: Whoa!  Superman is secretly Captain America?!

jimmy: Obviously.

tomk: I should have…wait, why does he need a shield?

jimmy: Uh….aesthetics?

tomk: You know what those are good for?  Blocking space parasites.

jimmy: Exactly!  He’d have avoided all this trouble if he went in to feed the creature with his shield!

tomk: Or if he’d been a neglectful zookeeper and let them all starve!

jimmy: Well, they don’t say he stands for truth, justice and the feeding of extraterrestrial animals for nothing.

tomk: That S doesn’t stand for France!

Oh wait, that was Mark Millar’s Ultimate Captain America…

jimmy: Same guy!

tomk: Whoa!  Superman is such an asshole and I didn’t know it!

jimmy: http://www.superdickery.com/tag/superman-is-a-dick/

tomk: Dicks and assholes are different things, Jimmy.

jimmy: But both are Watson.

tomk: True.

So, did the team action work for you?

jimmy: I don’t remember it not working for me.  The JL seemed to work fine, especially in the attack just prior to Warhawk “dying”.

tomk: Oh no!  Terry’s new friend nearly died!

jimmy: How often does anyone actually die on these DCAU shows?  When it happened I thought “man, they just killed him off and everyone is pretty nonchalant about it”.  Of course, he was back in less than 5 minutes.

tomk: Terry only knew the guy about five minutes before it happened.

Or maybe nobody liked him.

jimmy: Nobody seemed to much like anybody. Except for maybe Terry and the Little Mermaid.

tomk: Barda seemed to respect Warhawk.

jimmy: Yeah, that came to mind too.  Neither were keen on Terry though.

tomk: Terry was the new guy who just showed up. The others presumably knew each other for years.

jimmy: They were still pretty jerky about the whole thing.

tomk: People only like Batman when they haven’t met him.

jimmy: Question.  I know we are on season 3, but any idea how long Terry has been operating as Batman in DCAU time?

tomk: Not in the slightest.

jimmy: Same.  I’m just thinking, if it’s been awhile, he should have earned some credibility with the other heroes by now…even if they haven’t worked together before.

tomk: He mostly sticks to Gotham.

Who wants to go there?

jimmy: Still, I’m sure they’ve heard about the new Batman and things that he’s done.

tomk: He kept the riffraff out of Metropolis?

jimmy: He’s at least done enough for people to trust him.

tomk: You trust every celebrity you know of?

jimmy:If they beat up villains 22 minutes every week, yes.

tomk: The League saves the world. Batman stops street crime. That’s about as screwy as putting Spider-Man on the Avengers.

jimmy: Spider-Man on the Avengers?  That’s unpossible.

tomk: You’d know about the possible.

jimmy: My name’s not Jimmy Possible, Tom!  (P.S. those two suck.)


jimmy: No, my estranged sister’s name is Jimmy.

tomk: Now I am even more confused. Just as confused as the Justice League was when Superman broke protocol and put some stranger on the team without consulting anyone.

jimmy: And for what reason?  What was Starro’s plan?  >He had no reason to bring in Batman and create a fake traitor…that only he knew about.

tomk: He had to make sure all the superheroes were under his control?

Especially the one with the kryptonite?

jimmy: Which he probably didn’t know about?

tomk: You think Superman doesn’t know Batman has some kryptonite, you poor sweet summer child?

jimmy: Perhaps. But the plan still made no sense.

tomk: Space parasites aren’t known for their logical plans. Unless bringing Terry in was to throw the rest of the League off after the attack on Micron.

jimmy: Maybe. It just all seemed unnecessary and overly complicated for no reason.

tomk: You new to superheroes?

jimmy: I figured a response along those lines was coming.

tomk: And yet you still asked the question!  You are falling right into my clutches!

jimmy: That doesn’t seem very maniacal.


jimmy: Better.


jimmy: There you go!

tomk: OK, so clearly you would have had a better plan to take over the Earth if you were a space parasite starfish from a different cartoon series.

jimmy: I would hope so, but who knows. That’s a lot of pressure.

tomk: You wouldn’t use alien moose antlers or something silly like that?

jimmy: Umm…

tomk: Yeah, no one will see that one coming a mile away.

Well, do episodes like this at least let you see the potential of Justice League?

jimmy: A Justice League show?  That’ll never work.

tomk: What would you prefer?  The unlikely return of Big Time?

jimmy: He’s on his way, he’s making it?

tomk: After certain chemical baths, his body keeps getting bigger.

jimmy: So much larger than life.

tomk: Shall we move on then?

jimmy: Sure.

tomk: Yeah, because we obviously will never have to discuss the League ever again.

jimmy: Never, ever again.

tomk: So, let’s talk Big Time for the last time.


Big Time returns, and he brings guilty feelings with him!

jimmy:  So, you think Bruce had Harvey Dent on his mind this episode?

tomk: Probably.  Wouldn’t you? Or, more accurately, didn’t you?

jimmy: Yes and yes.

tomk: Well, you’re smart.  You probably drink plenty of malk.

But really, this may be why I saw Big Time as a Two-Face stand-in from the beginning since I remembered this, his second and final episode.

jimmy: You stepped on my “I do, but my bones are so brittle” response.Yeah, he’s totally Two-Face 2099. That said, at least Harvey was a reputable attorney with, eventually, a mental health issue.  Big Time is just a thug in all incarnations.

tomk: But a smarter thug than he appears to be.

jimmy: He ain’t just a pretty face.

tomk: He happens to like his pretty face.

jimmy: Respect.

tomk: That does put him ahead of Two-Face.

But Two-Face was classy.  So that put him behind Two-Face.

jimmy: What puts him next to Two-Face?

tomk: Um, tough guy voice?

jimmy: I’ll accept that.

tomk: That disfiguration even changed his vocal cords!

jimmy: Well, it would.

So, would you rather Richard Moll or Clancy Brown?

tomk: Either of a lesser Baldwin is the correct answer.

jimmy: Baldwin over Brown?

tomk: A lesser one, yes.

Or not.  I got it backwards.

Moll or Brown over a lesser Baldwin.

jimmy: That makes more sense.

tomk: Though Brown is only so-so here compared to some of the inky smoothness of his Lex Luthor.

jimmy: Yeah, he didn’t really stand out.

tomk: He sounds too old to be a teenage friend of Terry’s.

jimmy: Well, that could be blamed on his condition, as you said.

tomk: I blame many things on his condition.  Like world hunger and A Goofy Movie.

jimmy: You must have seen that on your peruse of Disney+ like I did, because no other way do I hear about A Goofy Movie twice in the span of a few hours.

tomk: To be fair, it does live up to its title.

jimmy: I can’t say I’ve ever seen it.

tomk: Me neither.  But it has Goofy, the Big Time of the Mickey Mouse Cinematic Universe.

jimmy: Goofy’s better than that.

tomk: Why?  He and Pluto used to be best friends before an accident deformed Goofy into a more bipedal monstrosity who’s always making life miserable for everyone else.

jimmy: You know a lot more about Goofy than I do.

tomk: It’s a gift and a curse.

It’s also why Goofy doesn’t have a girlfriend like Mickey and Donald.  He reproduces by spawning a genetic clone out of his back.  It’s why he has a son but no wife.

jimmy: Maybe his wife went out for a pack of smokes and never came back?

tomk: Clearly, you need to drink more malk.

jimmy says and then adds:

So, the ending made me think of this.

tomk: Big Time reminds you of Liam Neeson?

jimmy: Uh…sure.

But more that it didn’t seem like Terry made much, if any, effort to save Big Time in the finale.

tomk: Big Time was Big Trouble. Especially in Little Gotham.

Also, he’s very heavy.

jimmy: But no effort at all?  Never tried to grab him?  Shoot a batarang rope dealie around him?  Nothing.  He just falls and Terry climbs up and basically goes for a beer.

tomk: Would you want to see more of Big Time?

jimmy: No, it just seemed, cold.  Even for Batman.  And that ending of Batman Begins has always been a bit controversial since you can frame it whatever way you want, he left Kegan to die.

tomk: True, but I think they set up Big Time as durable enough to survive the fall.

jimmy: Likely, but it sounds like we’ll never know.

tomk: True, but I think if they made more episodes, we would have seen characters like Big Time and Inque again.

jimmy: Yeah.  And it’s not like subsequent series were in the same timeline so that they could pop up again in Justice League or whatever.

tomk: You get a couple cameos in a time travel episode maybe.

jimmy: Speaking of cameos, we get one in this episode.  Of paper money.

tomk: Which President was on them?

jimmy: …all of them?

tomk: Are they having a party?

jimmy: Yes.  A sexy party.

tomk:Watson at that one?

jimmy: He was already asked to leave by the police.

tomk: I heard he just ratted out his gang to his friend and then hid until after the cops left.

jimmy: That’s so Watson.

tomk: Well, overall, what did you think of Big Face?

jimmy: Episode was good.  Overall, I’m not a big fan of Big Time, but he works for what he needs to do for 22 minutes.

tomk: True enough. And we only have four episodes left. There’s a two parter, Zeta’s return, and the “lost” final episode.

Oh, and then the movie.

jimmy:  Is this after Zeta’s show?  Why is it considered “lost”?  Maybe we can wait on those answers…

tomk:  We can. We should. We must. Or I can tell you right now.

jimmy:  You’re the boss.


jimmy:  Stick around.

tomk: Ready to move on, Jimmy?

jimmy:  Sure.

tomk:  Good. Big Time is lame and I ran out of stuff to say about him after his first episode.

NEXT TIME:  Tom and Jimmy will be back for the last installment of Batman Beyond episodes with “Curse of the Kobra” parts 1 and 2, “Countdown,” and “Unmasked”.