June 18, 2024

Gabbing Geek

Your online community for all things geeky.

The Westeros Watch Part Eighteen

Jimmy and Tom are moving through Game of Thrones. This chat covers the season four episodes "First of his Name" and "The Laws of Gods and Men".

If you watch the Game of Thrones, you either gasp or you cry.  You know, when something goes wrong for a character you like.

That sort of thing happens here as a trial starts for a fan favorite in the season four episodes “First of his Name,” and “The Laws of Gods and Men”.  Tom and Jimmy have some thoughts.

jimmy:  You know, if you can’t trust the whore you’re in love with, who can you trust?

tomk:  The brother who almost gave up the love of his life and what little of his honor was left over to give you a way out?

jimmy:  Damn Jaime being honorable again!

So, I just finished the part in the first book where he pushes Bran out the window. In retrospect, this seems very out of character for him. I can’t reconcile the two in my head.

tomk:  But you must have been a little peeved. All those awesome moments where Tyrion slapped Joffrey and verbally berated Joffrey and did what every member of the audience wanted to do to Joffrey ended up being used against him at trial.

Jaime is…complex. Just think of the push as something he did for Cersei, the person he cares for most. If it got out what Cersei was up to, it would have been both their heads since kings could, traditionally, cheat all they wanted, but for a queen to cheat on her husband, that would be considered treason and that’s a capital offense.

And that’s assuming Robert did just go apespit on them without a trial.

jimmy:  That’s true. But back to Tyrion, the trial is typical Tywin/Tyrion/nice guys finish last. It drove me crazy how they twisted everything he did and used it against him. Outside of Shae who straight up lied.

tomk:  Varys also lied.

But Varys, well, he would do it to keep himself alive, and that one may have hurt the most until Shae came out.

jimmy:  Yes, you are right. But we’re not surprised by Varys. Shae was a dagger in the heart.

tomk:  And he only told her that stuff about being whore because it was the only way to actually get her to leave town and be safe…

But lest you think that trial was all dull and awful, or just want proof Peter Dinklage and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau are both secretly awesome, there’s always this:

jimmy:  That’s awesome. Better than that horrible, horrible Tywin dancing gif.

tomk:  Oh this?

jimmy:  I knew you were going to do that. The goggles! They do nothing!

tomk:  You feel like Varys does in that gif.

jimmy:  He’s not vomiting, so no.

tomk:  Maybe this will make you feel better:

jimmy:  Better?  Or worse?

tomk:  Stupid borders…

jimmy:  I blame Ryan.

tomk:  OK, but, back to the trial…was it at all possible Tyrion could get a fair shake there?

jimmy:  Impossible. And he knew as much. But I think how unfair it actually ended up being even surprised him.

tomk:  Did it surprise you or Ms. Impossible?

jimmy:  Probably along the same lines. I never thought he would get a fair trail, but everyone twisting all the things he had done, even saving Kings Landing from Stannis, and the lies, was all very frustrating.

tomk:  It’s like he did nothing but make enemies his entire life.

jimmy:  And/or everyone is terrified of Tywin/the Crown.

tomk:  Look, just because Mace Tyrell unthinkingly runs errands for Tywin at Small Council meetings doesn’t mean…wait, yes it does.

jimmy:  Heh. I’m not sure why they even bothered with the charade of the trial. Which leads to another aspect…trial by combat. I don’t know why anyone would be a champion for either side. You have a 50/50 shot at ending up dead. Though given the 3.5 seasons so far, I guess your odds aren’t great either way.

tomk:  Tyrion won out that way once before with Bronn.

jimmy:  Yes I know. But why do that? It worked out for Bronn and Tyrion that time…but the other combatant went out the moon door.

tomk:  If the evidence is stacked against him—heck, he couldn’t even question the witnesses for the most part—what other avenues does he have when both his father or his sister are clearly plotting against him? The witnesses seem more like Cersei’s work than Tywin’s.

jimmy:  I’m not saying he shouldn’t ask for it, I’m saying why would anyone, at any trial, for any side be a champion?

tomk:  He’d have to be his own champion if someone doesn’t.

jimmy:  Ah, so the initial declaration is that Tyrion would fight…Cersei? That could be interesting.

tomk:  You think Cersei can’t find a champion?

jimmy:  Of course. And I’m sure that most times when a trial by combat is declared, two champions are expected. Especially for a case like this. Would be interesting if a skilled fighter such as Jaime were in this position, would he immediately announce he would fight for himself?

A two-handed Jaime anyway…

tomk:  Jaime offered Robb trial by conflict to end the war. Robb, wisely, declined.

jimmy:  Boys and their swords.

tomk:  So, that trial was so big, we might have lost track of the other plots.

jimmy:  There were other plots besides the trial?

tomk:  Um, sure! There was Dany deciding to rule so she’d know what she was doing when she got to Westeros, there was the whole Jon-takes-an-expedition-North to deal with those traitors who had Bran and his company, there was Sansa meeting the crazier side of her mother’s family…

So, with those potentially interesting plot lines out there undiscussed…let’s point out that season three ended with a cliffhanger of Yara going to rescue Theon, we finally got to it for a quick bit where we find out Forking Ramsay can fight very well without a shirt, and that’s that.

jimmy:  And we find out just how forked up poor Theon/Reek is now.

tomk:  He sleeps with the hounds…the nasty, bloodthirsty hounds that can send Yara running for the hills.

jimmy:  His not going with Yara wasn’t a complete surprise as he is obviously broken, but it was still sad.

tomk:  Yeah, but not much of a subplot with Yara. It’s like the writers remembered they had her out, did something with her really quick, and then wrote her off again for the foreseeable future.

jimmy:  Well, they had more important things to get to like Reek pretending to be Theon.

tomk:  After a bath he clearly didn’t want, mostly because it involved seeing what wasn’t there anymore from the looks of things.

Forking Ramsay…

jimmy:  I don’t know that he didn’t want it, but was afraid it was another cruel trick.

tomk:  It was hard to say. Would you feel comfortable with anything involving Ramsay in the room with you at this point?

jimmy:  In the room. In the castle. In Westeros.

tomk:  You would feed him to the White Walkers at this point, wouldn’t you?

jimmy:  Long before this point. At least he’s not torturing poor Theon anymore.

tomk:  No, he’s torturing the viewer by having hot sex and not getting the punishment we all want to see him have. Forking Ramsay…

jimmy:  Ugh. You’re right.

tomk:  So, do you hate him more than Joffrey yet?

jimmy:  Hmmm…that’s a good question…

Maybe yes. Since Joffrey at heart was a coward and Ramsay is just pure evil.

tomk:  Ramsay is what Joffrey could have been if Joffrey was competent.

jimmy:  And not dead.

tomk:  Not every bastard can be Jon Snow.

And wait until you get to book Ramsay in the second novel. He makes TV Ramsay look pleasant by comparison.

jimmy:  Awesome.

tomk:  But we can say that not all of the Bolton people get the job done. Look at Locke.

jimmy:  That’s what can happen when you mess with Hodor.

tomk:  Or Bran.

Damn, Bran can Hodor with the best of them.

jimmy:  Which is very cool.

tomk:  As cool as a sword through the face?

jimmy:  Maybe not. But that guy deserved worse.

tomk:  Or that guy who got killed by Ghost. Dude, you do NOT taunt a direwolf!

jimmy:  I love when the wolves get in on the action. Especially taking out weasels like this.

tomk:  You know, the wolves are probably a little expensive so we can’t see them that often…but when they do show up…

jimmy:  And sometimes it is easy to forget they are not indestructible.

tomk:  The wolves remember.

Grey Wind and Lady are prime examples.

jimmy:  They are of the North.

tomk:  The North remembers.

Like a sword through a well-deserved face, the North remembers.

jimmy:  You really liked that kill.

tomk:  It was memorable.

Especially given the angle Jon stabbed that guy at.

jimmy:  I agree. One of the more memorable shots of the series so far. And then the long drawing out of the sword…

tomk:  But you must have been pleased with that whole raid. You said you hated the traitors and Locke, and now none of those guys are anybody’s problem.

jimmy:  I did indeed. If there’s one thing Game of Thrones is good at, it’s creating characters that you cheer for to get stabbed in the face. Or have their necks snapped like a twig by a faux giant.

tomk:  Or eventually die of poison at his own wedding.

jimmy:  Yeah. This show definitely doesn’t do much for the psyche of people with commitment issues.

tomk:  Good thing there wasn’t a traumatizing wedding in this batch! It was the wedding night that traumatized Sansa.

jimmy:  At his point, she should be more worried about her aunt.

tomk:  What, you thought her cousin was the problem?

jimmy:  He needs to go out the Moon Door, but no.

tomk:  What is it with you, that kid, and the Moon Door?

jimmy:  He just gets on my nerves. And the door is RIGHT THERE!

tomk:  Good point. Lyssa seems more dangerous at this point though. Especially since it seems she conspired with Littlefinger to kill her late husband, the event that sent Ned Stark to King’s Landing.

jimmy:  She’s definitely a few fries short of a happy meal.

tomk:  Clearly, she is so smitten with Littlefinger she can’t think straight.

Which presumes she ever could think straight…

jimmy:  She’s spent too many nights out with Stannis’s wife.

tomk:  Hey! Lyssa’s son survived!


jimmy:  And unfortunately for Sansa.

tomk:  I’m sure she’ll be OK. She survived Joffrey after all. Aunt Lyssa ain’t Joffrey.

jimmy:  No. Thank God. And methinks Littlefinger is the one to be worried about.

tomk:  I dunno. Lyssa had a septon on speeddial.

jimmy:  Let’s just say Sansa has not had much luck since leaving Winterfell.

tomk:  None of the Starks have. They should have all just stayed in bed.

jimmy:  Bran tried that. Now he’s wandering around beyond the Wall.

tomk:  Arya got a lucky hit on the Hound. Then he clobbered her. She might be the luckiest Stark to date.

jimmy:  Yeah. “Lucky”.

tomk:  Wait, Jon got laid. A lot. He literally got lucky.

But he’s a Snow, not a Stark.

Arguably Theon’s luck ran out when he returned to Winterfell…

jimmy:  Though he’s not a Stark either.

tomk:  He probably wishes he was.

Reek Stark, the smelliest Stark you know.

jimmy:  Maybe not, he did just get that bath…

tomk:  And maybe Dany and her dragons will not have any more problems in Meereen.

jimmy:  Three and a half seasons left to go…yeah, nothing could possiblie go wrong.

tomk:  She’s going to use up all her emergency goat replacement fund very quickly.

jimmy:  Drogon is quickly becoming a danger to everyone (and goats). Maybe he is just going through his “teenage years”.

tomk:  Or his “flying predator” years!

jimmy:  Or he just likes eating goats. Who doesn’t?

tomk:  Vegetarians?

jimmy:  …maybe…

tomk:  Look, not everyone loves goats. They still have creepy eyes.


jimmy:  Lol

tomk:  So, Dany has to pay for goats. She may need to consider getting a loan at this rate. Hey, she can always try the Iron Bank of Braavos!

jimmy:  Those guys are NOT happy with the Lannisters.

tomk:  Or Stannis, but Davos raises a good point about who runs the kingdom when Old Man Tywin croaks.

jimmy:  Davos knows how to talk the talk, there’s no doubt about that.

tomk:  He has the hand for it.

jimmy:  Minus a few digits.

tomk:  It worked well enough to hire some pirates.

jimmy:  Can you really trust pirates to help you win a war?

tomk:  They have a good joke about brown pants.

jimmy:  Haha, yes.

tomk:  And after you burn enough people at the stake, you pretty much have to pay mercenaries.

jimmy:  You can’t come back from a stake burning.

tomk:  You are so going to love it when that reference makes sense.

jimmy:  Heh.

tomk:  So, anything else to add for this pair of episodes, Jimmy? That trial sure ended with a hell of a monologue.

jimmy:  Oh, I loved that Tyrion confession so much. You tell those ungrateful bastards how it is!

tomk:  That was probably Peter Dinklage’s Emmy reel for that year…

jimmy:  That’s something we’ve never really talked about, but I imagine the show has won a boatload of awards?

tomk:  Huh. I think Dinklage won something for season one, but I haven’t really paid any attention to that sort of thing.

jimmy:  That’s fine. Me neither. We’ll just have to agree Dinklage is awesome and move on

tomk:  Yes, yes he is. And he will continue to be awesome as long as Tyrion can keep his head on his shoulders. A little trial by combat will determine that!

jimmy:  If he can find a champion…

tomk:  I’m sure someone will turn up. Maybe Pod can come back!

jimmy:  If so, I hope Cersei’s champion is a woman.

tomk:  You know, it probably doesn’t work that way. Besides, Cersei has a nice cruel streak in her. Whoever she chooses isn’t going to be subtle.

jimmy:  I can imagine.

tomk:  Why imagine when you can find out for yourself?

jimmy:  Is that a segue?

tomk:  Do you have anything else to add?

jimmy:  Only other thing was on my mind was we talked about Dany in terms of goat reserves, but not about the masters attempting to take back over the freed cities, causing Dany to delay her siege of Westeros for another season or two. But I think I just covered what there is to say about that.

tomk:  True, and she actually doesn’t have the manpower to take King’s Landing anyway.

jimmy:  Yet.

tomk:  Yet.

Then that segue was entirely intentional!

jimmy:  Good job! You’re no Watson, but that’s entirely intentional as well.

tomk:  I’m working on it. In the meantime, let’s move on.

jimmy:  Yes. Let’s us find out who will be champions.

And so our Watch continues. Be back soon as Tom and Jimmy cover the episodes “Mockingbird” and “The Mountain and the Viper”.

“You been Hodored!”