March 2, 2024

Gabbing Geek

Your online community for all things geeky.

The Westeros Watch Part Sixteen

Jimmy and Tom's Game of Thrones chats continue as they move on to season four with "Two Swords" and "The Lion and the Rose".

Season three ended with a wedding that went in an unexpected way.

Now Jimmy and Tom are back for more discussion as they start season four with the episodes “Two Swords” and “The Lion and the Rose”.

tomk:  I am guessing this pair ended in a way you found satisfactory.

jimmy:  Ms Impossible threw her arms in the air and cheered. Is that wrong?

tomk:  Probably not in this case, no.

jimmy:  I’m glad he’s dead too, but I have to admit I found his death a little underwhelming/unsatisfactory. After all the hate and death and torment he inflicted on others, he deserved worse.

tomk:  It is rather anticlimactic, isn’t it?

jimmy:  I think that is exactly what I said to the Ms.

tomk:  We wanted Joffrey to die, but not something liked being poisoned at his own wedding. But don’t worry, before he died, he reminded everyone what a jackass he was.

By the by, fans call that one the Purple Wedding.

jimmy:  It…was purple?

tomk:  Joffrey was when he croaked!

jimmy:  Lol

tomk:  Purple is also the traditional color of royalty.

jimmy:  Yes. I assumed that was why.

It would have been more satisfying if one of those performance dwarves had bludgeoned him to death or something.

tomk:  Nah. They were just a reminder, once again, as to how awful Joffrey was. How many people did he offend with that mess?

jimmy:  Definitely Tyrion. But the Tyrell’s seemed less than impressed. Tywin and Cersei seemed to have a good chuckle.

tomk:  Not really. Joffrey’s brother Tommen laughed until Tyrion shot him a look. But it also offended Sansa, Loras, and probably Margaery and Brienne. It was in incredibly poor taste at best.

jimmy:  Tommen is a boy. It would appeal to him and the poor taste would go right over his head.

tomk:  But it was a crude and unfunny show. And Joffrey didn’t care.

jimmy:  Care? He reveled in it.

tomk:  And that was only one awful thing he did.

jimmy:  And then his whole thing with making Tyrion serve him wine, dropping the mug, etc.

tomk:  Destroying Tyrion’s wedding present. Sneering at everyone. Being Joffrey.

jimmy:  Oh right, cutting up the book.

tomk:  The one good thing “he” did was actually Margaery, and Cersei reversed that order.

jimmy:  I’m surprised Cersei allowed the wedding to go through in the first place.

tomk:  She probably had no say in the matter.

jimmy:  Yeah, because that would stop her.

tomk:  It does when it’s Tywin making that call.

jimmy:  That might be the only way.

tomk:  True dat. She no foo’.

jimmy:  Well, a few people were played for fools since the King was poisoned right in front of everyone.

tomk:  And there was a fool there that, if you knocked his hat off with a projectile, could win you a gold coin.

Man, Joffrey was the worst…

So, let me ask you: who do you think did it?

jimmy:  I knew you were going to ask that. 🙂

tomk:  Do you have a guess?

Let’s look at the suspects…

There’s Tyrion, Sansa, Oberyn Martell, Stannis, the Lord of Light, the Seven-in-One, Legolas, Gandalf, Wonder Woman foe Dr. Poison, Jenny, the Honest Trailers voiceover guy, Joffrey himself in a bizarre suicide, the surviving doves from the pie, the author of that book Tyrion gave to Joffrey, and of course Spongebob Squarepants.

jimmy:  Lol. My money is on that snidely Spongebob!

Look at that murderous expression!

tomk:  What about Snidely Whiplash?

We have another suspect!

jimmy:  He was busy in Canada.

tomk:  Well, I am sure Dudley Do-Right will catch him…say, Dudley does look a lot like Jaime…and red, like a Mountie uniform, is the official color of House Lannister…

jimmy:  I honestly don’t know if I even have a guess. I’m pretty sure Tyrion didn’t do it. And I think Sansa is going to snap at some point and become an ass kicker, but she’s not there yet. The jester showing up out of the blue and rushing Sansa to safety is incredibly suspicious. I would think he may be involved somehow.

tomk:  Quite frankly, Tyrion and Sansa may be the least murderous people at the wedding.

jimmy:  Right. Joffrey has a lot of enemies. Who’s to say it was even someone in attendance?

tomk:  And poison is the one threat a member of the Kingsguard can’t really do anything about. Pycelle maybe could, but Cersei had just banished his perverted ass to the kitchen.

jimmy:  To the kitchen, eh? Poison, eh? Cake, eh?

tomk:  Maude, eh?

jimmy:  Well, he’d be in the position to do so, and poison is his thing, but seems like an awfully bold move for him.

tomk:  Especially given his personal devotion to the Lannisters.

Besides, my point was he wasn’t there. He’s actually less likely to be a suspect.

If we want to look at a Maester at all, there’s always Qyburn.

But Qyburn has it too good, and you might not even know who he is right now.

jimmy:  I…do not.

tomk:  We first saw Qyburn as a badly wounded man when Robb found Harrenhal largely wrecked aside from a handful of dead Tully soldiers.

Then he treated Jaime’s stump and went back to King’s Landing with the Kingslayer.

But he’s a former Maester. Pycelle hates him. Qyburn was kicked out of the Maesters for performing experiments that were somewhere in the range of the mad sort of scientist.

Cersei loves the guy.

jimmy:  Ah. Right. That is who I was thinking it was, but wasn’t sure of his name.

tomk:  But we also know Oberyn Martell has a grudge against all Lannisters from when the Mountain raped and murdered his sister and flat out killed her children, the wife and kids of Prince Rhaegar.

jimmy:  He seems a likely suspect, but poison seems too subtle for him.

tomk:  His nickname is the Red Viper of Dorne. He’s much more direct when he comes at someone.

jimmy:  Exactly. And he is not shy about who knows about his grudges. He’d want something like this to be a spectacle.

tomk:  And while the former knight Dontos looks to be connected, he also is a drunk who couldn’t possibly have pulled this off.

Heck, there’s even a chance someone like Tywin did it to make sure someone more stable and controllable was on the throne.

jimmy:  That crossed my mind. I’d even suspect Cersei, but she loves her kids too damn much.

tomk:  Cersei’s one redeeming quality, even according to Tyrion, is she loves her children, even a psychotic manchild like Joffrey.

jimmy:  Yeah. So she was quickly off the list. I agree that Tywin would be the most likely Lannister involved if it suited his needs, but he’s pretty loyal to family as well.

tomk:  If he wouldn’t murder his disgrace of a dwarfen infant son that accidentally killed his wife at birth, he probably wouldn’t do the same to Joffrey. Besides, he did seem to have Joffrey more or less under control.

Whoever it was, he or she or they were super-sneaky types.

But I did stop to watch the producer chat for this one, and the two creators both said as much as Joffrey was an irredeemable monster, actor Jack Gleason was a great guy to work with and they were sorry to see him go.

And to show you just how much he isn’t like the character, Gleason retired from acting when Joffrey was killed off to devote his life to charity work.

jimmy:  They say that about all the irredeemable monsters.

tomk:  Well, yes, the Charles Manson Foundation has done a lot for underprivileged children in third world countries.

Besides, we still have Ramsay.

jimmy:  Ugh. Yeah. That Guy.

tomk:  Ramsay can be quite the conundrum.

Especially when he visits his actor friends.

jimmy:  Haha, nice. Someone better warn Gandalf.

tomk:  Where were Ramsay and Gandalf when Joffrey took that fatal sip? Hmmmm…

jimmy:  Well, we at least know where Ramsay was…

tomk:  Getting a close shave to impress his dad.

jimmy:  Poor Theon, I mean Reek.

tomk:  Between this and your recent praise of Aquaman, you must be saying a lot of things you never thought you’d say.

jimmy:  I’m a new man.

tomk:  Clearly.

By the by…Ramsay’s stepmother.

Remember if you will, just before the Red Wedding went red, we learned Roose had married a Frey girl. Walder has offered a dowry of the weight of the girl Roose chose in silver so Roose picked the heaviest one.

jimmy:  Did he ever.

If you’re not marrying for love you might as well make it worth your while.

tomk:  It’s little things like this that say a lot about Roose. He clearly didn’t care at all for this new wife. He wanted the money. And heck, you gotta figure old Walder might have seen this coming when he came up with that offer.

jimmy:  That’s a good point.

He wasn’t too happy about Ramsay’s treatment of Theon though. Not from a humanitarian standpoint, but from a strategic one.

tomk:  Roose probably doesn’t know what “humanitarian” means. He might think it’s what the Thenn tribe of Wildlings do.

jimmy:  Perhaps.

And are we surprised that Ramsay and Locke are friends?

tomk:  Of course not.

Are we surprised that guy Tyrion sent to the Wall is still playing up his old job like that makes him an expert?

jimmy:  Our friend the baby killer?

tomk:  Janos Slint. That’s the guy. Even his name sounds sketchy.

jimmy:  That it does.

tomk:  But Jon broke all the rules and got away with it. He’s the man.

jimmy:  He might have gotten away with it, but he’s clearly disliked/not trusted by some.

tomk:  He already was in that category with Ser Alliser.

jimmy:  That guy’s a jerk anyway.

tomk:  Too many jerks run that organization. Though they do acknowledge a number of the brothers of the Night’s Watch use a nearby brothel.

jimmy:  Yeah, they’re not exactly sticklers about the vows sometimes.

tomk:  Well, as long as they don’t murder the Lord Commander or something stupid like that.

jimmy:  Yeah, ‘cause that never happened already.

tomk:  We’ll have to see how that turns out. They need a new Lord Commander. Thorne is just filling in.

jimmy:  So what do Thorne and Slint have to gain by not believing Jon? Are they simply hostile for the sake of being hostile or do they believe he has thrown in with Steppenwolf and is there to take the Night’s Watch down from the inside?

tomk:  Thorne never liked Jon. He sees Jon as an overprivledged punk. Slint likes to feel important.

jimmy:  And is loyal to Joffrey.

tomk:  Well, Cersei at least.

She sure knows how to pick them…

jimmy:  “It takes one to know one” might be appropriate here. What that “one” is…we probably can’t say in this family friendly chat.

Anything else to add about the goings on at The Wall before we move on or I start making Pink Floyd references?

tomk:  Maester Aemon is awesome?

jimmy:  That he is. For a Targaryen. :p

tomk:  Oh, he was the one who gave up the throne for himself.

Plus, that actor was blind in real life, not just on the show.

jimmy:  Really? No wonder he is so convincing!

tomk:  As an actor, being convincing is his job.

Then again, we’ve seen Maesters, Brothers of the Night’s Watch, and Kingsguards breaking vows of chastity. I’m starting to think those words mean nothing.

jimmy:  It sure seems that way. Maybe they need to go the more extreme eunuch/Theon route?

tomk:  You think they want even less recruits than they are getting now?

jimmy:  Haha. Well, maybe they need a better recruitment strategy.

tomk:  “Give up your warm, cushy life! Spend what’s left of it in the coldest part of the Seven Kingdoms with convicted criminals and disinherited nobles! No girls allowed!”

How does that not work?

jimmy:  It’s a start. 😉

But I was thinking more of creating a legitimate army. Yes, conditions are harsh, but you know what’s worse? White Walker invasion. But I think this speaks to how seriously people were taking the threat from the North. (Which I think we touched on before.). Ah, just kill a few Wildlings when they act up and you’ll be fine.

tomk:  More or less. Most people think White Walkers are fairy tales or something.

jimmy:  Except for dragon skulls being kept around, when we began the series most of the fantasy elements of the series have been dormant for hundreds of years I think. Except maybe those red witches…

tomk:  Which are largely unknown in Westeros. And if the warlocks of Qarth are any indication, those witches probably haven’t been able to do much “magic” again until recently.

jimmy:  Well one of those Lord of Light worshippers sure has her hooks in Stannis. Though his wife might be “worse”. At least Melisandre doesn’t seem insane.

tomk:  She’s tutoring their daughter now. That should go well.

jimmy:  Someone has to teach her they are in hell.

tomk:  How does this religion keep finding converts?

jimmy:  I guess it “helps” when if you don’t believe they set you on fire?


Good point.

jimmy:  Have we mentioned this go round that Martin wrote episode 2?

tomk:  We have now!

Have we mentioned Tormund agreed with you that Ygritte might have let Jon Snow go?

jimmy:  We have now!

tomk:  Plus, it seems some of the more disreputable Wildlings have a different idea on what “eating crow” means.

jimmy:  lol…yeah, we don’t like those “new” guys.

tomk:  Lousy Thenns…

jimmy:  Tormund’s group feels the same way.

tomk:  Well, Mance united all the Wildlings, not just the socially acceptable ones.

jimmy:  That’s true.

tomk:  Look at it this way: the Thenns found a different method to keep the White Walkers from resurrecting the recently deceased.

jimmy:  It still involves cooking them…

tomk:  You win this round, Impossible.

jimmy:  I am on a roll!

So back to Martin, did you say this was his last episode that he wrote?

tomk:  To date. He may have written one for the final season for all I know.

jimmy:  Too busy working on book 6 I guess.

tomk:  That was his explanation for not doing more.

jimmy:  This is currently the longest he’s gone between books according to the interwebs. Though there have been 5 and 6 year breaks between the last couple.

tomk:  Well, I do think he’ll finish this one. The whole series is another story.

jimmy:  I’m a REALLY slow reader. If I start book one soon…maybe he’ll be done by then.

tomk:  If you want to read it, that is.

You could always try to be more like Bran and warg into a really old tree.

jimmy:  I could warg into an old tree, but I already had A LOT of fibre today.

tomk:  That sounds like a Watson joke of some sort.

jimmy:  Eww. Sorry.

tomk:  But Bran saw all kinds of things, like dragons over Kings Landing, his father, and the Game of Thrones Honest Trailer.

jimmy:  lol. Wargs are awesome!

But his visions are more Sight related I guess.

tomk:  It’s not always about being a wolf or an eagle. Sometimes it’s about being a mystic peeping tom.

jimmy:  Hmmm…there could be a good Bran, fibre joke here somewhere to be had. And speaking of little shits, we talked about Joffrey destroying the book Tyrion gave him, but not about his new sword.

tomk:  Yeah, that was so Tywin: reveling (as much as he is capable of doing so) in the destruction of a rival house by melting down its valarian steel sword and making two new ones for his own family.

jimmy:  Yes. Talk about rubbing their face in it. Even if most of them are dead, or far away, and Sansa likely wouldn’t know the difference.

tomk:  It’s not like there weren’t jackasses rubbing it in any Lannister faces. Look at Joffrey mocking Jaime…

jimmy:  I WILL NOT miss that guy.

tomk:  Have we come full circle?

I mean, this is Joffrey we’re talking about. Everyone wanted that weasel dead. And now we got it. But there is the problem of everyone’s favorite character being the prime suspect and already arrested for regicide.

jimmy:  Ha. He needs a dialing wand. And speaking of favorite characters, have we talked about Dany at all?

And the sudden change in the actor playing Daario that was hella confusing.

tomk:  He doesn’t even look like the original guy!

jimmy:  At least all the Mountains were huge guys. Could this guy be any different and more generic looking? The original Daario had a very distinctive look.

tomk:  The original just looked like Deadpool’s doctor. This guy looks…um…nicer?

jimmy:  He looks like everyone else. And I know they are not going to have a voice over like the soaps used to do (still do?) that comes on and says, “the role of Daario is now being played by…”, but myself and the Ms were kinda looking at each other like “who the hell is this guy?”

tomk:  Yeah, I don’t know what to tell you.

Maybe the original guy killed Joffrey and went into hiding!

jimmy:  Seems more likely than Tyrion doing it.

tomk:  But Dany is on a mission to free all the slaves, and the guys at the last city just made her mad…

jimmy:  Can you blame her? Those road markers are pretty horrific.

tomk:  Those guys are toast. Possibly literally.

jimmy:  Speaking of possibly being toast…what’s up with Drogon? Talking back to his mother like that.

tomk:  He’s still a dragon, dude.

jimmy:  And here comes Tom, defending dragon behavior again.

tomk:  Dragons are not pets.

jimmy:  The other two, uh, Smokey and Cinder Block don’t seem to be much trouble.

tomk:  Those two were named for her brothers. Drogon was named after Khal Drogo. I am sure the names mean something.

jimmy:  He seems to have Drogo’s attitude and size over the others.

tomk:  Same level of civilization, too.

jimmy:  Heh

tomk:  Ok, we’ve caught up with everyone except Arya and the Hound then.

jimmy:  The original Odd Couple.

tomk:  So, who’s scarier? The big guy who kills you quick while demanding chickens or the girl who does it slow but makes it personal?

jimmy:  The little girl is definitely scarier.

When you see the Hound, you know you are in trouble.

Who sees Arya coming?

tomk:  Rickon?

jimmy:  Doubtful.

tomk:  It’s always the one you least suspect.

jimmy:  It’s like my Mom always said, don’t mess with Arya.

tomk:  You mom is a very wise woman.

jimmy:  Yes. And Arya’s revenge was very sweet indeed.

tomk:  And the Hound didn’t mind too much.

jimmy:  He doesn’t mind as long as he gets a heads up.

tomk:  And some chickens.

jimmy:  And Arya gets her own horse.

tomk:  He probably prefers it that way himself.

jimmy:  She appreciates not having to smell him.

tomk:  He does smell a lot like a wet dog.

jimmy:  Shall we see where the new horse takes them?

tomk:  Yes. Let’s.

And so our Watch continues.  Be back soon for chat over the episodes “Breaker of Chains” and “Oathkeeper”.

Perhaps the most satisfying moment of the entire series.