The Westeros Watch Part Fourteen

We’re back with more Game of Thrones talk as Jimmy and Tom have some stuff to say about the season three episodes “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” and “Second Sons”.

tomk:  So, one thing that jumped out at me for this pair of episodes is a small thing: George RR Martin wrote the script for episode seven, and unlike the other episodes he wrote, it seems to be a lot less consequential than the others. His first saw the arrest and capture of Ned’s people. His second was the Battle of Blackwater. His fourth and to date final script in season four is pretty big. But “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” seems to be mostly about catching up various plotlines until Jaime does something heroic in the last minute or so.

jimmy:  Any particular reasoning there, or just the story Martin chose to tell this season?

tomk:  If there was a reason for it, I don’t know what it is. I suppose the bear scene at the end is big, but It isn’t exactly the most heroic fight in a bear pit I’ve ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ8tBO9Fl28

But I will add this episode had the one scene I felt I had to fast forward through: Theon and that knife.

jimmy:  I never fast forwarded, but it was especially hard to watch. (And you had knowledge of what was to come.) I’m really looking forward to the end of that storyline.

tomk:  Let’s just say that moment was always just implied in the books.

I so hate That Guy.

jimmy:  Oh, me too.

tomk:  So let’s talk about someone else.

Joffrey sure is a jackass.

jimmy:  Speaking of guys we hate.

tomk:  Tywin put him in his place.

jimmy:  He’s the only one that can.

tomk:  Tywin has…gravitas.

Though Tywin doesn’t seem all that concerned about the Mother of Dragons.

jimmy:  She’s just a girl with some baby dragons.

tomk:  And an army of killer eunuchs.

jimmy:  It’s probably one of the few cases where Joffrey was right. Even if his head is just in a murderous place. Tywin sure seems to be underestimating Dany…though he can’t really see what she is up to and that her dragons are not mere curiosities.

tomk:  But that scene is just rather cool between the two of them. Joffrey seems frightened of his grandpa. We’ve seen Joffrey scared before, but only when his life might potentially be in danger. Tywin just runs rings around him as Joffrey realizes he doesn’t really know what’s going on.

jimmy:  It also establishes (if it needed to be established) that Tywin is the true leader here and while Joffrey does have power, in many ways he is just a figurehead.

tomk:  It also suggests how Tywin used to handle the Mad King.

jimmy:  Or anyone for that matter. Tywin always seems to be a step ahead, or at least, always manipulated people to get his own way. His daughter’s a chip off the old block, she just hasn’t learned to be subtle about it.

tomk:  It’s like I always say about the Lannister kid:  they each got something of their father’s. Cersei got the ambition but not the intelligence.

jimmy:  Which I think went to Tyrion, though anyone would be loathe to admit it.

tomk:  That is my general assessment. He’s smart, but not ambitious. Jaime got the tactical and military skills.

jimmy:  Speaking of Jamie, there he goes getting all noble and popular with fans again.

tomk:  Again? Or still? It’s not like he lapsed back to “utter cad mode” between episodes.

jimmy:  Fine. Still.

tomk:  Do you find this transformation, for lack of a better word, convincing?

jimmy:  The longer it goes, the more it seems like he is misunderstood. But keep in mind he’s still the guy that remorselessly pushed Bran out a window.

tomk:  And half produced Joffrey.

jimmy:  Explains Joffrey’s mental problems.

tomk:  Except…Joffrey’s younger siblings turned out fine.

jimmy:  Everyone knows the oldest child is the craziest one.

tomk:  Well, my own younger siblings would agree with that assessment.

Plus:
CERSEI IMPOSSIBLE: Be gone, little brother Jimmy. Moose Bolton and I wish to do things without our pants.

jimmy:  Ewww.

tomk:  Some people have problems.

jimmy:  But if Jaime was a complete asshat, he wouldn’t have gone back for Brienne and risked his life to save her from Yogi.

tomk:  Or from being almost raped before. Then again, the story he told about her father’s wealth contributed to her cage match with Yogi.

jimmy:  Yes, but that was unforeseen and unintentional.

tomk:  But he owned his mistake and jumped into a bear pit. You won’t see Justin Trudeau doing that anytime soon b

jimmy:  He’d do it before your noble leader.

tomk:  My leader would need to admit to a mistake before he could make up for it first.

jimmy:  That bear is huge. I know it. He’s a good friend of mine.

tomk:  It’s hard for bear actors to get good work outside a Goldilocks remake.

jimmy:  But let’s look at Jaime again. He’s most notoriously known for porking his sister…icky, but not evil; killing the Mad King…he broke his vows, but given the supposed circumstances surrounding it, saved a half million people; general war killing and stuff…which everyone is doing; saving Brienne multiple times…risking his life and losing his hand. It sure seems like pushing Bran out a window is completely out of character.

tomk:  Pushing Bran was probably done to appease Cersei.

jimmy:  He does have a soft spot for her soft spots.

tomk:  I’m not touching that one.

Said Watson never.

jimmy:  Heh

But seriously, I can see how he has grown on people. Especially given the huge number of people that you can hate in this show.

tomk:  I know Ryan still hates him. But I find him more human the more we get to know him, combined with the tragic element that he could never acknowledge his own children.

jimmy:  And the fact that Ryan hates him only enforces that sensible humans will like him.

tomk:  I’m not touching that one either.

Watson will.

Though speaking of not touching…Tyrion’s wedding.

jimmy:  I was just typing something similar. I think Tyrion would more than happily bed Sansa, but he is our noble hero and will wait until she wants him too…which, even she admits, will probably never happen.

tomk:  And he knows it too.

jimmy:  She doesn’t know he’s been speaking to Pod.

tomk:  But we got a prime Joffrey threat in there. That wooden cock thing should keep the little snot off-balance for a while.

jimmy:  Though given the horrors we’ve seen already in Joffrey’s bedroom, they may still happen anyway.

tomk:  Joffrey was being particularly insufferable. Laughing at Tyrion’s attempts to put a cloak on Sansa was just one more awful thing from an awful man, and then threatening to rape the bride to boot.

He and That Guy should get into a Worst Off.

But like Alien vs. Predator, whoever wins, we lose.

jimmy:  Ha. I’m going to guess that is the first Alien vs Predator reference in any Game of Thrones conversation on the interwebs.

What makes things worse with Joffrey is the share number of people that will laugh at or endorse or allow him to get away with such cruelty. I know they are following their king, and many probably fear for their lives, but many seem to revel in it.

You didn’t see Tywin with a disgusted look on his face. He was quite fine with Joffrey humiliating Tyrion.

tomk:  It’s Tyrion. He’d been a pain in the ass about the whole thing all that time.

How dare he not want to marry and knock up the scared 14 or 15 year old girl!

Plus, Tywin never liked him anyway.

jimmy:  Yes I know, but just an example. We need more people saying “Fuck the king!”, but they probably wouldn’t live long after that.

tomk:  The producer commentary on the wedding episode raised an interesting idea: Joffrey hates Sansa and Tyrion because they’ve seen the real him.

Namely a cowardly weasel.

jimmy:  That makes sense. They are also the only ones outside of Tywin that have really stood up to Joffrey.

tomk:  And one of them successfully!

jimmy:  It’s too bad Sansa didn’t successfully push him off that bridge after he showed her her father’s head at the end of season one.

tomk:  That would have been totally worth it. Like Jon inventing oral sex and Robb inventing a new generation of Starks.

jimmy:  I don’t care if Jon invents aural sex, as long as it gets rid of Joffrey.

tomk:  Depends on who you ask. Ygritte doesn’t care about any king. Jon’s invention means more to her.

jimmy:  I bet it does.

Sticking with Jon, he’s not really all that convincing as a turned Crow. It’s more surprising that more people believe him than not. And he also has to worry about Orell making a play for his woman. Well, maybe worry is too strong a word, since Ygritte makes sure he knows she is not interested.

tomk:  Orell should stick to his eagles.

jimmy:  Yeah, he’s not exactly as pretty as Jon.

tomk:  Or as sensitive or generous in the sack or possessing normal-sized eyes.

jimmy:  Lol

tomk:  Speaking of sexually-satisfied women, Robb’s wife is expecting.

jimmy:  One doesn’t imply the other.

tomk:  Her lounging around while he goes over the war map might.

jimmy:  Yeah, because THAT wouldn’t be distracting at all.

tomk:  I didn’t hear Robb complaining.

jimmy:  Oh, I wouldn’t either…but I’m not sure my planning skills would be at their height. But good for them. A new little Ned or Nedwina to carry on the bloodline.

tomk:  Nedwina is a lovely name.

jimmy:  Isn’t it?

tomk:  I think the point is Robb is enjoying more time with his partner than Arya is with her decidedly non-romantic matchup

And the segue gods may be smiling on me right now with that one.

jimmy:  Lol. Yes, nicely done.

It’s a weird relationship though. He does threaten her and is using her for ransom, but is also protecting her and taking her to her brother and mother.

tomk:  He won’t get any ransom if she shows up injured or worse.

jimmy:  That’s true enough. But we’ve seen with Sansa that he can be caring. Now whether he feels that way for Arya, I’m not sure.

tomk:  Arya is many things. “Not Sansa” is the first of many such things.

jimmy:  Haha, yes. She is very “Not Sansa”.

tomk:  But the Hound isn’t the worst person to be stuck with. He’s far from the best, but he’s not the worst.

jimmy:  It’s like being stuck with Ryan.

Best (me and you) > Ryan > Worst (Watson)

tomk:  Yes. That is exactly correct. It’s why Jenny always sounds fed up on the podcast.

jimmy:  She’s stuck between worst and sorta ok but not the greatest. I bet she longs for the old Blab days. But I digress…

tomk:  Yes. Should Arya have dropped that rock?

jimmy:  No. You think there is any chance in hell that one rock with her “strength” would do any permanent damage to him?

tomk:  Probably not. She seemed to figure that out too. One hit would not have been enough.

jimmy:  Maybe if she light the rock on fire…

tomk:  Oh that’s your solution to everything.

jimmy:  If it ain’t broke…

tomk:  But speaking of not broke…Dany got herself a merc army.

jimmy:  Yeah…I wasn’t expecting Daario to go all Joe Pesci.

tomk:  Daario has been a problem since he gave Wade Wilson healing powers.

jimmy:  I knew he looked familiar!

tomk:  Get a good look. For some reason that role gets recast for season four with a guy who looks nothing like this fellow.

jimmy:  Great. Because I find it so easy to keep track of everyone as it is.

tomk:  Daario Naharis may be one of the most hated characters in the novels. Martin described him as having a big, double-forked beard dyed blue and Dany falls for his obnoxious, bragging ass for some reason.

jimmy:  At least this guy seems more like a smooth operator.

tomk:  True. It a sleazy sort of way. Fans of the books sometimes wonder why Dany keeps the guy around. Then they remember she’s only, like, 14 or so and has the poor taste in the opposite sex common to that age group.

jimmy:  Don’t tell that to Drogo.

tomk:  He’s dead. What’s he going to do about it? Summon fish?

jimmy:  Well, that would be a silly power now wouldn’t it?

tomk:  Maybe.

jimmy:  Either way, Dany has compiled quite a following for herself.

tomk:  We’ll give her that! Disgraced knights, horny mercs, a eunuch army, whatever Dothraki are still hanging around, a translator, and three dragons.

Some of those are more valuable than others.

jimmy:  So Daario kills his co-generals and pledges his own men to Dany all because he thinks she’s hot? I bet Dany never gets any speeding tickets.

tomk:  Well, she does allow strange men to watch her get dressed when they pledge their loyalty to her.

jimmy:  That’s not how that works?

tomk:  Try it and find out.

jimmy:  The next time I am in Yunkai I certainly will!

tomk:  Hopefully it ends better for you than it did for Daario’s partners.

Man, my spellcheck hates his name…

jimmy:  Ha…I’m having the same issue.

Though it has learned a lot of the other names at this point.

tomk:  Good. Just in time for a whole bunch of new ones to appear any time now.

jimmy:  So we’ve covered Dany and Robb. What else? Oh, Sam killed a White Walker. That’s something.

tomk:  Yeah. It just took a dragonglass blade. That information could come in handy.

jimmy:  Did we know anything about dragonglass prior to this?

tomk:  Only that Sam found a stockpile of the stuff back at the Fist of the First Men.

jimmy:  Left by whom? Hmm…

tomk:  Probably the First Men. That would be the first humans to settle Westeros centuries earlier.

But there is a place in Westeros where there’s a lot of dragonglass.

jimmy:  Drogon’s Dragonglass Den. That’s on 5th.

tomk:  Or under Dragonstone, traditional home of the Targaryens. You know, Stannis’ place.

jimmy:  And the best part of that place is that Melisandre will get in the dragonglass with you.

tomk:  That’s for hammocks.

Though the White Walker Sam killed looked a lot like the one that gave him the stink eye. That’ll teach that frozen jackass.

jimmy:  Ha. I just figured they all look basically the same.

tomk:  We’ve only gotten a good look at one of them so far.

jimmy:  And now he’s dead as fried chicken.

tomk:  Or a puddle of ice cream left out in a wildfire explosion.

jimmy:  Probably more apt.

And since you never made use of my excellent Dragon Stone segue, why the elaborate act of seducing Gendry?

tomk:  She needed the Blood of King’s, and stuff like that makes it easier to get some blood from Gendry’s personal Kingmaker.

jimmy:  But did she have to have blood from there? Does she know how the circulatory system works?

tomk:  Are you saying there might have been some gratuitous nudity?

jimmy:  I’m not going to complain about some gratuitous nudity, I was just wondering if it had any significance as opposed to the other 1000 ways they could have gotten a tiny amount of his blood.

tomk:  Um, yes?

jimmy:  Ok good.

tomk:  Davos thought Melisandre was just going to kill Gendry. Instead, they’ll just sacrifice some leaches.

jimmy:  And I’m guessing I should remember the names he says. Let’s see, uh, Robb Stark…Joffrey? And…Scott Summers. I think that’s right.

tomk:  Balon Greyjoy was the third. But, as Ryan might say, you knew that.

jimmy:  Theon’s papa?

tomk:  The very same. Lord Crankypants.

jimmy:  I guess he doesn’t know Robb doesn’t want the Iron Throne.

And wasn’t it Ned who informed Stannis of Joffrey’s lineage?

tomk:  Stannis sees the Iron Throne as power over all seven kingdoms. That includes the North and the Iron Islands. Just because Robb and Balon don’t want the Iron Throne doesn’t mean they aren’t taking power Stannis believes is rightfully his.

jimmy:  Fair. Plus I think Stannis might be a little touched/corrupted by the Lord of Light anywho.

tomk:  Then why is Davos still alive?

jimmy:  He’s Jimminy Cricket.

tomk:  Not bad. The producer chat said it’s because Davos is the only honest person without a personal agenda that Stannis knows. Davos will always tell Stannis the truth. Stannis knows even Melisandre wants something else. Stannis is a pragmatist. If it works, he’ll use it.

jimmy:  And he’s probably just the smallest bit resentful that he is the true King and has to work so hard to get what is owed him, including killing his own brother.

tomk:  He actually seems to regret that somewhat.

It’s for duty, not ambition.

jimmy:  Well, I’m thinking we may have covered everything. Any other thoughts?

tomk:  The night is dark and full of terrors…and you should probably be feeling lots of terror if Melisandre is walking around topless in your room.

And so our Watch continues.  Be back soon as Jimmy and Tom finish up season three with “The Rains of Castamere” and “Mhysa”.